Just recently I have had reason enough to do a little research into my Internet connection, my ISP. In terms of speed, customer service, security and censorship.
Way back now more than a decade ago I gained my network systems engineer qualifications although I have never put them to any professional use except for a short spell of teaching back in the UK. They do sometimes come in handy when using computers, dealing with ISP's and dealing with telephone companies.
OK, my ISP and telephone provider here in Nanning is the much loved China Telecom.
The China telecom offices proudly display signs implying customer service is first and foremost. This is obviously something they have picked up from the west, sadly though, they didn't pick up the customer service substance bit.
Should you have a problem with your Internet connection or telephone it is a hit and miss affair as to whether or not your problem will ever be sorted - After all, Who cares? - You may well ask!
Our episode starts about 3 months back, basically intermittent Internet connection!
So I persuade my wife to call the china telecom number to report a fault. Yes the phone was ringing but sadly no answer, it must be midday!
Tried again at 3pm, still no answer.
Right, so off we traipse to the local office, luckily just around the corner from our apartment.
Often in these situations I feel the angst build inside of me so I have to consciously stay in control of my emotions. I tend to think nice thoughts, like that of tasting sour milk for the first time.
I just know that this is not going to be easy. How do I know? - I have been here over one year and these situations don't ever get any easier…
I've pre-programmed my wife to try and do this quickly with as little fuss as possible.
I have given her the cause of our Internet problem, the exact location where the problem exists and the simplest, easiest way to remedy it.
It's a line degradation issue pure and simple, maybe an actual line break that with movement rights itself, occasionally. Simple to rectify.
Right, now in fairness the my lovely wife, she is a woman and here in China, a woman is at an immediate disadvantage - a woman with a little perceived knowledge is on a tightrope to hell, especially if dealing with Mr China.
Just hope and pray it's not a man she speaks with.
From my observations here, the women with the attributes described above, firstly a woman and also a knowledgeable woman only carry it off if they go in, hard and firm and vociferously.
Now my wife ain't like that, she's a lovely, soft, smiling, quiet, caring and considerate lady.
We're in luck, it's a girl she speaks with and they both chat away quite happily for about 15 minutes, in Chinese! and in fairness to my wife, she pulled if off with charm and elegance.
At least, I thought she did, the 'girl' said, "someone will be out soon to fix it". "Soon" I said in my western manner. Yes, "soon, probably tomorrow". Right, I said whilst quietly murmuring to myself "I'll believe that when I see it". Me a Cynic?, never.
Anyway, I was getting intermittent Internet so I waited two days before saying rather sarcastically to my wife, "any sign of the engineers today, do you think?"
She knows me well enough now and she does actually see things a lot differently to her pre Andrew days.
So, once again, on the phone she gets, much loud talking this time and those ever so lovely glances at me that speak volumes about how her life was so much simpler before she met me.
She finally puts the phone down and say's, "someone will be here this afternoon" in a tone that made me think, "it was all my fault".
When it rains in Nanning, it can rain a lot and hard and wet.
At 2.30pm the phone rings, my wife answers it, talks for about 2/3 minutes then fairly angrily places the receiver down. She didn't throw it but I could sense it was not good news.
"What's the matter darling" - That’s Andrew being sympathetic.
"That was the telephone engineer, they are going to wait till it stops raining"
"Right, OK" - That's Andrew being understandable.
Did it stop raining? Yes about 5pm - Did we see an engineer, NO.
That night about 9pm the phone rang. It was a girl from China Telecom asking if the problem we had reported had been sorted out. No, was the answer.
I'll get someone to phone you first thing in the morning, she told my wife.
Did they?, NO.
It wasn't perfect, still intermittent, but sometimes it did work, so I didn't say much about it for about two or three days…
Then one day, it did not work at all.
"Wifey", you know the Internet is not working at all now?, Any chance we could let China Telecom know, maybe have an engineer out to look at it! - That’s Andrew being charming.
She looked at me, I thought my days were up, but she just laughed and said "We can try". That's all anyone can ask, I said.
I suppose at this point about two weeks had past since our first contact with China Telecom.
My wife went around to the office on her own this time. She soon returned, heated and happy. "someone will contact us within the hour" she said excitedly.
Mmmm, contact? I thought?
The phone rang 40 minutes later.
The engineer say's you have to open your computer and re enter your password.
"Why" I said.
Because that's probably what's wrong, he say's.
NO, it's not, I said.
It a line problem.
OK, he say's he will be here this afternoon to check the line.
After a couple of weeks of intermittent Internet usage you kinda get used to it.
You forget just how good it was, if good is the right term.
Did we ever see anyone, NO
So I wiggled the wires where I believed the problem to be and it was fine again - for a while.
Then one day, it stopped working again. So my wife was on the phone again.
Someone will be here this afternoon, she said.
Yeah right!, I said - That's Andrew showing interest.
I need to explain a little about this for your complete understanding.
We live on the 15th floor of a 15 floor apartment block.
Now, for some reason best known to the builders the phone line built in does not work to our apartment. So we have a wire taken from the 14th floor that goes around the building, through a window (not ours, a communal window) and then up to our apartment.
When this line was put in by the China telecom engineers they in there inevitable style fed the wire through the window opening, which means every time the window is opened closed and moved in any way, the wire gets a good beating. This is the problem. To fix it properly, the wire needs to be replaced and a hole drilled through the window frame to accommodate the wire. Simple...
To be continued, more practicalities...
The practicalities continued...
I know what your thinking, why didn't you fix it yourself?. Simply, I want the wire re-routed to prevent any future re occurrence. That's my wish...
About 2pm that same day as the phone call, two, yes two engineers turned up.
Luckily for us, we had arrived home just in time. As in each case of a promised visit we needed to be at home.
First things first, my wife explains the problem.
After all my briefings to her, she is now an expert on telegraphic line issues in China.
This time though, armed with knowledge she who would not normally say boo to a goose is now a somewhat different person.
She carefully explains the issue to them, the likely cause of the issue and the exact location of the issue. It was as much as I could do to stop myself from laughing whilst observing the look on their faces.
Did they listen? - Were they interested? - NO.
First they wanted me to turn on my laptop - NO, was my reply.
Somewhat taken aback and after my wife explained again, it is not necessary, this is a line issue and has nothing to do with the computer they muttered away between them selves and diverted their attentions to the modem.
I quickly told her in English that the modem has two important indicator lights, one is 'mains on' and the other is 'line', so if the line indicator is on then the line is connected from the modem to China Telecom base, meaning the line is OK. The line indicator light was NOT on. She in turn quickly explained this to the two engineers,…more muttering.
My wife, now strutting around like proudcock, I had to laugh, she was looking very knowledgeable, although on thin ice - she is a perceived knowledgeable Chinese woman, and they are Chinese men.
My wife dispatched me outside to wiggle the wires, at the window, to show it as 'on' and 'off'. This I did twice, now you would think at this point they might have a clue.
They still insisted on changing the modem - did it cure the issue, NO. Once again my wife said, "it’s a line problem", outside, at the window - my husband just wiggled it for you - did they listen, NO.
Next they turned their attention to the apartment junction box. Most apartments here in Nanning have one of these, ours is now located in one of our kitchen cupboards, we moved it there during renovations. Normally they are far more prominent and invariably unsightly.
So, under the cupboard they go, my wife still insisting, the problems not under there.
Out come all the wires for the apartment, telephone (two sets, one active, one not) television, some electric, intercom etc. A jumble.
After explaining, AGAIN, about the issue with the originally installed telephone cable not working, they managed to find the NEW line that has the intermittent problem. Much scratching of heads ensued, now they have the wire in their hands, how do they test it. Now, don't forget, this is an intermittent issue, at present, it is actually working. I suggest, via my wife, they could try connecting the modem at this point and I could then go out again and do the 'wiggling'.
Surprisingly, they agreed, probably because they could see that it was me that had suggested it and not the Chinese woman.
Did it work, NO, not at all now, probably because the wire, at the window, had been well and truly wiggled for the last time on my previous visit…intentionally.
So, I said, looking at them, scratching my head, "What now boys".
Of course, they didn't understand.
I took my wife by her hand, beckoned to them, too follow, which they did, and off we all trudged, outside, to the 'window'.
I pointed at the wire, flattened and in tatters between the sliding window and the frame and indicated that it might be here that they find a problem.
My wife translated and I'm pretty sure she got her point across because before I could say "told you so" out come the wire cutters, insulation tape and now, between the two of them, even more muttering and looking more than a little agitated, two minutes later, a greasy pair of fingers to twist the wires together and a little insulation tape, 'Hey Presto', it's working. No longer intermittent.
And it only took 3 weeks and about an hour or two, 'investigating' and 'they' had fixed the problem.
"Well done" I said.
Cowardly, I felt it unwise to suggest that perhaps next time they should listen to 'Chinese Woman' and in addition, do it properly and reroute the wire through the frame, being just thankful, after all this time to have my Internet, no longer intermittent - for now - I'll give it 6 months.
To be continued…The technicalities.
The Technicalities.
Pornography has it's uses. In moderation or for research.
Without it being the pioneer of mass image transfer, video transfer and Internet payment systems we would undoubtedly be at least 5 years backward at this point in time with regards to the Internet.
I'm not saying I support such illicit Internet sites but of late I have had good reason to use them.
My Internet connection is variable, I don’t mean in the intermittent practical sense as already spoken of but in the line speed, something is not right, is someone snooping on me here in China sense.
The line speed in itself is no real surprise, what with the resulting line degradation from poor working practises. Also it is very difficult to establish reliable information from China Telecom on contention ratios. Both these can cause considerable variation in line speed.
Back home, in the UK, my feeling is, I can trust my ISP, if I ask them a question, more often than not they answer honestly, in fact most surveys carried out in the west show, most users trust their ISP. Security is paramount. More on this later.
At present, I am here in China (although after this series of posts, how likely is it I will get my visa renewed?) and if you ask me whether or not I trust my ISP here in Nanning, the answer would be a resounding NO. Not the company or it's employees.
I've had my suspicions for some time, in fact several months. My line speed is considerably slower than that of my near neighbour, same ISP, same package.
Sometimes whilst surfing, I have had some peculiar redirects, nonsensical.
Some web pages are available to my neighbour on his PC using his connection but not me, on mine.
So, some weeks ago, I thought I would put some of my past training to the test and do my own monitoring, what better way, use some porn sites to test the system…Honest, I didn't look at any of the pictures and I did not search anything extreme, well, not intentionally.
Most sites of this nature are blocked here in China and certainly around a 5 or 6 weeks ago when I first tried many were blocked.
Of late as some loosening has occurred owing to Olympic fever, some, surprisingly are showing up.
My experience after first searching for, trying to connect and trying to download has produced some enlightening results.
In some cases I used a proxy and most were available but after a couple of attempts, suspiciously the proxy became unavailable.
Easy enough, find another proxy. But it raised a question, is this local interference or regional or national?
I tried some without a proxy, eventually as most are blocked you will stumble upon some that are available, normally new ones that the authorities have not managed to block, yet.
These, curiously threw up another strange occurrence, after maybe 30 seconds the page would sometimes lock, my browser would start showing, Internet Explorer has encountered a problem and will close.
This is not unusual when accessing undesirable sites as they often try to hijack the system and IE just closes it's doors, so I don't think this was in any way connected with the ISP, although to a novice it might appear so.
Sometimes an automatic redirect would kick in to a static colourful China Telecom page, in Chinese.
More alarmingly though, at any attempt to download, my Internet connection would 'break'. Now this is an ISP issue. Tried various sites and various downloads. As a benchmark, I went onto YouTube and tried downloading, OK except for a much slower than usual service.
After reconnecting, tried again, same result. This is not a coincidence, this is direct intervention.
End of pornography research…I promise.
Next I tried other less than acceptable sites here in China such as a search for Falun Gong, all of course blocked. If you try a Google search for this topic then invariably you get a Internet Explorer cannot display the web page error. This would more than likely be a national block. More on this later.
After all of these experiments, each time my Internet speed dropped considerably, (easy to check) sometimes not back to normal until connecting the following day.
But my worst fears are now apparent to me, a local intervention is not out of the question.
Of course, this article may be construed as criticism but that would be unfair, it is my findings based on my experiences here in Nanning China.
Can your ISP see what you do online? - YES…to be continued.
Can your ISP see what you do online? - YES, they can.
I support Internet policing and censorship.
China does have a reputation for web censorship but to my mind, China is right.
It is my opinion that if more governments were to do more to censor, then the web would undoubtedly be a less deviant place but the issue as always will be, not enough will do enough!
In the main, your ISP can see your browsing habits, your journey map, in the surfing sense.
Most ISP's do not have the resources or the inclination to look into every users Internet usage.
Do not ever forget though, it's your ISP that routes any data you send or request, they are your connection to the world wide web, you are trusting them to deliver or supply your data in a proper manner.
Can they look at your unencrypted data while they route it? Yes, if they were of a mind too.
Now, firstly, the real question should be, would they look? Are they really that interested?
In the West, unless you are doing something illegal, the answer would most certainly be NO...
For the paranoid, I have listed simple options of additional security available to you, in all these cases, there are further, even more secure solutions available but normally at a cost and for the average user, not normally necessary:-
Secure connections (https)
A connection that begins with 'https' instead of 'http' is a secure connection. In later windows versions the locked padlock will show alongside the URL bar. Your ISP can still see which sites you are visiting but the data actually sent to or displayed is encrypted. It is wise to use an https connection to an Email service like Gmail or Yahoo, easily done, just insert an 's' immediately after 'http' at login. This will secure your email under normal conditions.
Anonymous Web Surfing (Proxies)
There are plenty of free proxy websites out there. A word of caution, not all are what they seem. Some are malicious and no more than a collection of advertisements used to profit the website owner and are no more secure than a normal website. Look for older established ones, check out a forum or two on Proxies, get recommendations, word of mouth even better.
This is a minefield, it is a strong case of 'user beware'.
I have added an IP and location widget on the right hand side for those wishing to test their chosen proxy. When you visit this page through a proxy then the proxy IP and location should show, and not your own.
A far better method is to use an application like 'Tor', an open source software solution, one drawback here in China, the URL is blocked.
Remember your ISP can see that you're using a proxy but they cannot see your final destination URL's. It will be slower, but it will be hidden.
Encrypted Email
There is plenty of software available to encrypt email.
The easy option for normal usage is to use a secure connection (https) as mentioned earlier in Gmail and Yahoo. This will not encrypt the actual message content. Another option it to 'zip' your message and password protect the zipped file, then send the file.
Web VPN Services (Virtual private network)
There are services available that will allow you to set up a VPN or Virtual Private Network via the web. Simply, you connect to the VPN service via the web and they connect you to the internet. All encrypted. Very secure, very popular with heavy Wi-Fi users, for obvious reason, security.
Your ISP will be able to see the URL of your VPN when you connect.
To be continued…China and the internet - how do they block?
China and the Internet - how do they block?
China has a reputation for Internet censorship - rightly or wrongly?
Firstly, my own take on this - I like censorship, I agree with it. If one thinks back maybe 40+ years in the UK, we had reasonably effective film (cinema) censorship. Television was still in it's infancy and the radio was mostly, easy listening. News reporting was obviously stifled.
As a young teenager I can remember going to the pictures (cinema) which then was the equivalent in technology terms of today's Internet and only being allowed in to see a 'U' certificate film or if accompanied by an adult (someone over 18 years of age) an 'A' certificate.
OK, I accept it was a bit hit and miss but overall, from my experience, it worked.
For instance, in most cases it was nigh on impossible to get into see an 'X' certificate film if under 18.
Yes, there were exceptions, yes there were unscrupulous cinema owners that couldn't careless and yes, if you were savvy enough to wait for the film to start then creep in through the rear fire exit (if it was unlocked) then you got in.
For how long? often, not long, as the cinema owner would patrol the aisles looking for anyone that should not be there and throw us out.
I, as a young teenager could not easily watch or see inappropriate content. It was censored and to this day, I still agree with it.
Overall it was effective and relatively easy to control, back then. Today, it is far more difficult.
I can see nothing wrong with any countries decision to make unavailable certain web offerings.
In my short spell of research in this area I have found much to be applauded here in China regarding its apparent 'blocking' and long may it continue.
Each country should set it's own web surfing etiquette and be allowed, without hindrance, to administer its own remedies.
If I am in a foreign land, I accept that I should obey the rules of that land, regardless of whether I agree with them or not.
My main concern here in China is one of ISP employee issues, that is, can individual employees of my ISP abuse the system for their own advantage.
If my latest sight of a news report is correct, with well over 220 million Internet users China now has more than any other country, including America and will continue to grow in Internet numbers.
So how does China even begin to 'block' some Internet content?
I believe that there are plenty of misconceptions over this issue.
First we need to look at the fundamentals.
The Internet from it very earliest beginnings was designed to be 'available' to all, all those that choose to use it. This has not changed and most likely never will.
No country, No government, No organisation, No individual can totally block any particular web offering from everyone, forever.
The only way that a web offering can be made totally unavailable from everyone, forever, is by removing it from the Web - forever. Then, tracking down and destroying all cached copies, all digital copies, all hard (paper) copies and physically stopping the same or another individual re-serving it.
Theoretically possible, I agree, but highly unlikely...
As long as it is served on the 'web', it is available.
OK, it might be difficult to access owing to an obstruction or two but is never, ever impossible to view by all and even the obstructions for some can be overcome and those that 'block' know this…
China has probably no more than 3 main fibre optic Internet connection pipelines. One in Beijing, one in Shanghai and the other most likely in Guangzhou. Conventional wired Internet channels are also relatively few in number.
Without going into the technicalities of Internet protocols and engineering, take it from me, that these limited connection channel options make it very easy to monitor what does come in and go out.
Technology marches on and although Internet traffic could always, from the very beginning, be 'sniffed', today, it is 'sniffed' more subtly and with sophistication often resulting in, for the unfortunate surfer, time outs or an apparent total block.
Should an authority choose to block, it has a variety of means at its disposal, some allowing blocking both in or out of a system:-
They could use the DNS (Domain Name Server) block.
For users to access a website they need to provide an address to reach, the URL, Uniform Resource Locator.
The URL is normally now in name/letter/word format, actually it is simply an IP address, a series of numbers separated by full stops. It was decided early on in Internet history to enable name to IP (number) conversion because humans find it easier to remember names and not numbers.
So when you enter a URL it goes off to the DNS and it is at this point it is possible to block, with a no address or bad address return, actually at this point it is possible to also re-direct traffic to another web location, this is sometimes the case.
This method is used to blanket block domain names, (bbc.com). It's easy and quick to implement and also reverse.
If a blanket block is not required then the following method is often used.
After the DNS lookup, if all is well, we enter the actual connection part of the operation, your requested URL is then signalled to connect to the remote server hosting the website. At this point messages are being exchanged between the two computers, yours and the issuing web page host. It is at this stage, whilst messages are going back and forth it is possible to redirect copies of the message packets to another computer that can assess the desirability of such a URL request.
Easy enough to have a list of undesirable web site URL's, a black list to 'check' against.
This method of blocking results in 'The connection has been reset window'.
It is this method that causes most aggravation because it is blocking on the 'fly'. One day available, another not.
Another clever ploy is to use a 'keyword' block. Simply, block a word or name in the URL that might be thought of as inappropriate. This too often results in a Connection reset. This method can be used to block recent event sites or sites that spring up after a particular happening.
The results for the surfer are once again frustrating to say the least.
This method can tie you up waiting for long periods only to eventually be given a page, 'unable to connect' or might throw up a redirect to a search engine, listing the very site your trying to reach…and you try again, and again...
The latest and by far most refined method of blocking involves actual page scanning techniques. It has now become an effective way to control viewing and either allow or block a page based on the content within the pages. The speed of the latest hardware means that all this can be done with little noticeable speed reduction to the surfer. This method will, I am sure, dominate.
As we know, the content on News sites changes all the time, with this method it is not essential to block the complete site anymore, only any pages that contain offending material.
It is this method that causes the surfer the most inconvenience as they will never know the resulting time out or what is not available, until they stumble on it.
How does it work?
Well, you request a particular web page, the issuing server sends the page as requested, at the same time as it is on route to your computer a copy of the page is also passing through a detecting server. A quick page content survey scan, very quick, milliseconds and any resulting bad words, bad content or anything else the detecting server has been set to pinpoint will result in the offending page being stopped by breaking the connection between the two computers, yours and the issuing server.
Also very quickly, the two offending IP's, yours and the issuing server will be prevented from communicating for a fixed period of time. This becomes a time-out and can be set to be any time period or series of time periods.
Now, what's really good about this method of blocking, the time outs, is this, if further attempts are made to get the web page then further reprisals may occur, a 30 minute block, an hour block or whatever the surveying server has been set to dish out.
Anecdotes and Topical Information for the 老外 Laowai in China.
Flights in and out of China
Flights in and out of China
You will be approached, probably by a man in a suit...
The problem with flying anywhere in China
is the fact that you are flying into, from or within China.
Delays are common. Cancellations do happen.
Both coming into, travelling within and leaving China.
In my experience the Domestic flights seem to be hit hardest.
It is not uncommon for a flight to be delayed from 5 minutes to 5 hours or longer if you are really unlucky and often with no explanation given.
So, if you go armed with this information and you have taken your laptop and or a good book, it should not be too much of a surprise and at least you will have your own entertainment.
Although entertainment will be all around if a lengthy delay is imminent, the Chinese do not take kindly too flight delays and it will not be long before voices are raised and crowds gather...sit back, relax and enjoy the show.
The reason I tell you to take your laptop, especially if it is wireless enabled is because most international airports in China now have wifi hot spots and some are free.
Be Careful though, make sure your connection is secure.
In Amsterdam (use this link to check lots of International Airports worldwide) is charged at around 6 Euros for 30 minutes. In China, I am not upto date with the latest charges.
As I am writing this I am thinking to myself that there is so much to tell you.
You will only need to have travelled to China a few times and you will also be the same position, so much to see, so much to learn and so much to tell.
Back to my original comment - You will be approached, probably by a man in a suit...
Beijing International Airport is divided into two, a Domestic Terminal and an International Terminal...do not let this fool you as domestic flights will leave from the International terminal.
The domestic terminal is a good 10 minute walk from the International terminal, so it might be wise to check the monitors first before you take this walk...the only draw back will be that you are standing in one place too long in the arrivals hall (any longer than 5 seconds) and that man in a suit is bound to approach you, OK, he might not be in a suit but sure as eggs is eggs he will approach offering one 'service' or another...
China Southern Airlines are big in China and the chances are that you will fly with them.
Nothing to worry about, good service although sometimes a little rushed, comfortable seats and pleasant and polite cabin crew.
Your main concern will probably the same as mine, mobile phones being used while taxiing, bags, boxes, cases, chickens (only joking) and various other chattels being put up, taken out of overhead lockers while the plane is still moving.
It is fair to point out that I now notice this happening more and more on other flights in other countries including the UK.
When will these people learn that it will not really make any difference to the time it takes to leave the airport...
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You will be approached, probably by a man in a suit...
The problem with flying anywhere in China
is the fact that you are flying into, from or within China.Delays are common. Cancellations do happen.
Both coming into, travelling within and leaving China.
In my experience the Domestic flights seem to be hit hardest.
It is not uncommon for a flight to be delayed from 5 minutes to 5 hours or longer if you are really unlucky and often with no explanation given.
So, if you go armed with this information and you have taken your laptop and or a good book, it should not be too much of a surprise and at least you will have your own entertainment.
Although entertainment will be all around if a lengthy delay is imminent, the Chinese do not take kindly too flight delays and it will not be long before voices are raised and crowds gather...sit back, relax and enjoy the show.
The reason I tell you to take your laptop, especially if it is wireless enabled is because most international airports in China now have wifi hot spots and some are free.
Be Careful though, make sure your connection is secure.
In Amsterdam (use this link to check lots of International Airports worldwide) is charged at around 6 Euros for 30 minutes. In China, I am not upto date with the latest charges.
As I am writing this I am thinking to myself that there is so much to tell you.
You will only need to have travelled to China a few times and you will also be the same position, so much to see, so much to learn and so much to tell.
Back to my original comment - You will be approached, probably by a man in a suit...
Beijing International Airport is divided into two, a Domestic Terminal and an International Terminal...do not let this fool you as domestic flights will leave from the International terminal.
The domestic terminal is a good 10 minute walk from the International terminal, so it might be wise to check the monitors first before you take this walk...the only draw back will be that you are standing in one place too long in the arrivals hall (any longer than 5 seconds) and that man in a suit is bound to approach you, OK, he might not be in a suit but sure as eggs is eggs he will approach offering one 'service' or another...
China Southern Airlines are big in China and the chances are that you will fly with them.
Nothing to worry about, good service although sometimes a little rushed, comfortable seats and pleasant and polite cabin crew.
Your main concern will probably the same as mine, mobile phones being used while taxiing, bags, boxes, cases, chickens (only joking) and various other chattels being put up, taken out of overhead lockers while the plane is still moving.
It is fair to point out that I now notice this happening more and more on other flights in other countries including the UK.
When will these people learn that it will not really make any difference to the time it takes to leave the airport...
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I want to buy a property in China- but where?
I think it is about time I brought this subject back to the top of the agenda again as it is the one topic I get most enquiries about - I want to buy, but where?
The questions are arising now as some that have been here a while and have been brave enough to purchase properties are happily in the black and are rightly so, probably singing about it.
Now, that’s not to say that those that follow will be as fortunate, we all know that property prices can and do fluctuate. On the surface one might think that it will not apply here in China?
It would not be possible to speculate where to buy exactly as there are so many contributing factors, not least, your own situation.
I know those that have bought in Nanning and are happy. Some not.
I know those that have bought in Beihai and they too are happy, mostly, some not. I have bought in both and yes, Beihai has a very good rate of property value growth but would I choose Beihai as a place to live, No, most certainly not.
To my mind it is a place to visit occasionally as I have found it to be a little superficial and somewhat unkempt.
I think Nanning is a safer bet from the social standpoint.
I have noticed here in Nanning and probably China as a whole that location popularity appears to be quite fickle.
An area or building that was highly popular last year, still is popular to the casual observer but to those in the know, taking a longer term view, other areas might be a better bet.
The Chinese are, there is no doubt, great speculators and in turn, speedy developers.
Not in the, I build apartment block sense but in the, if enough people like it then that particular block or area will develop very quickly.
Ok, I know this is logical but in most places in the world the speed of this area
popularity and development is considerably slower.
Here, with so much being built, everywhere, it happens at lightning pace.
The cultural dissimilarities can and often do throw the western property buyer off target, the selection rules here are to some western minds, illogical - I don't know too many westerners that use Feng Shui as the main decider in whether to buy or not!
So the watchword is, 'choose carefully' or you might find yourself sitting on a white elephant in the, 'my property value went up at an astonishing rate' gamble.
The questions are arising now as some that have been here a while and have been brave enough to purchase properties are happily in the black and are rightly so, probably singing about it.
Now, that’s not to say that those that follow will be as fortunate, we all know that property prices can and do fluctuate. On the surface one might think that it will not apply here in China?
It would not be possible to speculate where to buy exactly as there are so many contributing factors, not least, your own situation.
I know those that have bought in Nanning and are happy. Some not.
I know those that have bought in Beihai and they too are happy, mostly, some not. I have bought in both and yes, Beihai has a very good rate of property value growth but would I choose Beihai as a place to live, No, most certainly not.
To my mind it is a place to visit occasionally as I have found it to be a little superficial and somewhat unkempt.
I think Nanning is a safer bet from the social standpoint.
I have noticed here in Nanning and probably China as a whole that location popularity appears to be quite fickle.
An area or building that was highly popular last year, still is popular to the casual observer but to those in the know, taking a longer term view, other areas might be a better bet.
The Chinese are, there is no doubt, great speculators and in turn, speedy developers.
Not in the, I build apartment block sense but in the, if enough people like it then that particular block or area will develop very quickly.
Ok, I know this is logical but in most places in the world the speed of this area
popularity and development is considerably slower.
Here, with so much being built, everywhere, it happens at lightning pace.
The cultural dissimilarities can and often do throw the western property buyer off target, the selection rules here are to some western minds, illogical - I don't know too many westerners that use Feng Shui as the main decider in whether to buy or not!
So the watchword is, 'choose carefully' or you might find yourself sitting on a white elephant in the, 'my property value went up at an astonishing rate' gamble.
The People of Nanning Guangxi China - Time Lapse Video
Another great compilation, thanks Michael
Here's a selection of 10 short time lapse video clips taken in Nanning, China with a Canon G9 Powershot camera. People, people and more people. They were filmed at (in order of appearance): Nanhu (South Lake) Park (first 2 clips), outside the Chao Yang shopping center in downtown Nanning (next 3 clips), inside the Chao Yang Shopping center, Taichi at People's Park, Kite flying at Minzu (Nationality) Square, pedestrian crossing outside Pizza Hut at Wanda Shopping Plaza, and one final one outside Chao Yang shopping center.
The Buses of Nanning Guangxi China
A selection of some of the colourful buses in Nanning. They cost from only RMB1.20 (US$0.18) in most cases for one ride on the public buses in Nanning. The buses are very regular and there is a very good selection of routes to choose from.
Another great photo set by Michael - Life in Nanning.
To see some more of his great work - follow the links.
The Taxis of Nanning Guangxi China
Taxis of Nanning. Fares start from 7RMB in Nanning - A short 10/15 minute taxi ride will cost around 10/12RMB
Another great photo set by Michael - Life in Nanning.
To see some more of his great work - follow the link.
Chinese 'Face' coming to the surface when buying an apartment in China
The Beihai apartment purchase was not that dissimilar to the one in Nanning - At the start around November 2007 we paid a deposit of about 10%, at the time we applied for name change on the house document we paid a further 45% and on completion, the time when we collect the house book and the name and ownership has been changed we then pay the final 45%. It sounds all very straightforward and sometimes it can be.
But as often happens in simple situations the 'people' get involved and issues occur.
In this case there was a complication with ownership, the apartment was part of a pair of apartments bought at the same time around 4 years ago by our woman vendor and therefore only one House Book had been issued for both apartments. One title for both apartments.
She, before selling to us needed to split the title, in essence a simple bureaucratic task but as we know things are never that simple.
She had been married so the required legal proof of divorce or ex husbands permission etc made the process drag on and on coupled with this the fact that money was owed to a Bank and family all of which caused the woman vendor plenty of hassle.
'Not my/our problem'. This phrase I use a lot when negotiating with the Chinese which often throws them off balance. As they are often heard to say, "No problem" when in reality, there are often huge problems.
Interestingly, all through the negotiations over the 4 months we would often be dragged into the conflict via various telephone conversations Nana was receiving from the woman.
I was having none of it and Nana with her now, part western mind realised that unlike her Chinese mind telling her otherwise, she was having nothing of it either.
She later explained to me that this Chinese tactic of involving everybody was probably in the hope that later on in the negotiations maybe our involvement could be used to secure, either more money or at the very least to divert any difficult to resolve issues away from the woman vendor and unto us.
She would turn around and say, Well, it is not my fault, you told me, you helped me, you were involved it was your idea.
This is Chinese 'Face' coming to the surface - give the problem to somebody else and that way you avoid the embarrassment and the final decision making.
As I have said, I have been here long enough and understand the Chinese mind set sufficiently now to 'not get involved' unless it is absolutely necessary.
I play their game - BUT to my rules, not theirs.
I am always prepared to walk away and find something else.
But as often happens in simple situations the 'people' get involved and issues occur.
In this case there was a complication with ownership, the apartment was part of a pair of apartments bought at the same time around 4 years ago by our woman vendor and therefore only one House Book had been issued for both apartments. One title for both apartments.
She, before selling to us needed to split the title, in essence a simple bureaucratic task but as we know things are never that simple.
She had been married so the required legal proof of divorce or ex husbands permission etc made the process drag on and on coupled with this the fact that money was owed to a Bank and family all of which caused the woman vendor plenty of hassle.
'Not my/our problem'. This phrase I use a lot when negotiating with the Chinese which often throws them off balance. As they are often heard to say, "No problem" when in reality, there are often huge problems.
Interestingly, all through the negotiations over the 4 months we would often be dragged into the conflict via various telephone conversations Nana was receiving from the woman.
I was having none of it and Nana with her now, part western mind realised that unlike her Chinese mind telling her otherwise, she was having nothing of it either.
She later explained to me that this Chinese tactic of involving everybody was probably in the hope that later on in the negotiations maybe our involvement could be used to secure, either more money or at the very least to divert any difficult to resolve issues away from the woman vendor and unto us.
She would turn around and say, Well, it is not my fault, you told me, you helped me, you were involved it was your idea.
This is Chinese 'Face' coming to the surface - give the problem to somebody else and that way you avoid the embarrassment and the final decision making.
As I have said, I have been here long enough and understand the Chinese mind set sufficiently now to 'not get involved' unless it is absolutely necessary.
I play their game - BUT to my rules, not theirs.
I am always prepared to walk away and find something else.
Looking for love in China - Stuck on Stupid
Again, I am seeing the plight of the 'western' man in his quest for a life partner.
Again, and again the similar situation arises and all you hear is - Woe is me - how could she - I'm the victim - She has just disappeared without trace - I gave her money !..what??? You gave money to a stranger.
Yes, most certainly…you are the victim!
To those that fall prey - My opinion has not changed, from the start the motives of the 'western' man is flawed and my sympathy still remains firmly with the Lady, whatever she does…misguided she may be but far from stupid, good luck to her.
I hear the same conversation time and time again - I'm getting married - I've met a lovely girl - we chat on Yahoo/MSN every night - I'm so lucky…Yeah Right !!!
I know this will not be considered politically correct, but, there is no other way of putting it - These, so called, victims are just plain 'stupid'.
Of course, you can find on the various message boards the same boring, snivelling, sympathetic piffle of the 'western male' supporters - Oh, bad luck, and you looked so good together, how could you have known? don't blame yourself - what utter crap this is.
I even saw one American proprietor offering to 'list' the alleged offending lady on his 'Blacklist'...My God, is that legal under American law?…I am really not at all sure of the legal ramifications of such a publicly accessible list of 'guilty' persons.
Guilty?.. Guilty as charged by whom, dare I say it again, a 'stupid westerner and a website!'.
You will notice I use the word 'alleged', call me 'stupid' by all means, no problem, but you cannot accuse me of not being careful, of not listening to others, of rushing into anything, of not taking my time and learning about the person, of not making absolutely sure she was indeed my life partner, of not making sure that trust, honesty and loyalty were inherent in both of us before committing to anything.
Just like any 'normal' person would.
It goes without saying, I am happily married to an adorable Chinese Lady.
Good luck to all that follow, there is a wealth of good, honest information at Nanning.net
Six basic simple normally fail safe suggestions.(1) Know the person at least 6 months before any kind of commitment.
(2) Visit the person at least twice in their home town, for at least two weeks on each occasion, preferably four weeks.
(3) Never hand over any money if asked for, for whatever reason.
(4) Buy small relatively inexpensive gifts for the person and look very carefully at the reaction.
(5) Must arrange to meet up and socialise with western contacts whilst visiting the person. This is essential. You are western, you need western opinion and suggestion.
(6) Do not rely on Chinese opinion, from whatever source. Even if it is a friend or contacts wife or girlfriend. Unless you know them personally.
Do your homework on culture and China in general.
On a much lighter note, whilst on the subject of stupidity.
I was out two weeks ago shopping in Walmart, as you do, when time has no meaning when I was accosted by an Englishman, he stopped me dead in my tracks with "are you Andrew?" Yes, I said.
Anyway to cut a very long story short, he went on to tell me that he was leaving to go back to the UK the following week and that he was a little worried.
Why, I asked. Because he said, I am not sure whether my Visa is up to date.
Mmmm, yes, your thinking the same as I did!
I tried asking all the right questions, you know, what type of visa is it, is it an 'L' visa, how long have you been here, when did you renew it, you know the sort of thing.
Well, sadly, I said I tried but to no avail as he was a man that would not let me get word in edgeways.
The gist of it, as far as I could make out was that he had been here 6 months on a first visit from the UK with one renewal in the interim.
Eventually, I must admit, I was glad to get away as I could be of no help if he wouldn't let me speak.
I have now heard, a man was stopped trying to leave China by immigration officials recently, given the option of 10 days in prison or a 5000RMB fine for not having an up to date visa…Mmmm, I wonder. If he is out there somewhere it would be great if he could fill us all in with all the gory details.
Again, and again the similar situation arises and all you hear is - Woe is me - how could she - I'm the victim - She has just disappeared without trace - I gave her money !..what??? You gave money to a stranger.
Yes, most certainly…you are the victim!
To those that fall prey - My opinion has not changed, from the start the motives of the 'western' man is flawed and my sympathy still remains firmly with the Lady, whatever she does…misguided she may be but far from stupid, good luck to her.
I hear the same conversation time and time again - I'm getting married - I've met a lovely girl - we chat on Yahoo/MSN every night - I'm so lucky…Yeah Right !!!
I know this will not be considered politically correct, but, there is no other way of putting it - These, so called, victims are just plain 'stupid'.
Of course, you can find on the various message boards the same boring, snivelling, sympathetic piffle of the 'western male' supporters - Oh, bad luck, and you looked so good together, how could you have known? don't blame yourself - what utter crap this is.
I even saw one American proprietor offering to 'list' the alleged offending lady on his 'Blacklist'...My God, is that legal under American law?…I am really not at all sure of the legal ramifications of such a publicly accessible list of 'guilty' persons.
Guilty?.. Guilty as charged by whom, dare I say it again, a 'stupid westerner and a website!'.
You will notice I use the word 'alleged', call me 'stupid' by all means, no problem, but you cannot accuse me of not being careful, of not listening to others, of rushing into anything, of not taking my time and learning about the person, of not making absolutely sure she was indeed my life partner, of not making sure that trust, honesty and loyalty were inherent in both of us before committing to anything.
Just like any 'normal' person would.
It goes without saying, I am happily married to an adorable Chinese Lady.
Good luck to all that follow, there is a wealth of good, honest information at Nanning.net
Six basic simple normally fail safe suggestions.(1) Know the person at least 6 months before any kind of commitment.
(2) Visit the person at least twice in their home town, for at least two weeks on each occasion, preferably four weeks.
(3) Never hand over any money if asked for, for whatever reason.
(4) Buy small relatively inexpensive gifts for the person and look very carefully at the reaction.
(5) Must arrange to meet up and socialise with western contacts whilst visiting the person. This is essential. You are western, you need western opinion and suggestion.
(6) Do not rely on Chinese opinion, from whatever source. Even if it is a friend or contacts wife or girlfriend. Unless you know them personally.
Do your homework on culture and China in general.
On a much lighter note, whilst on the subject of stupidity.
I was out two weeks ago shopping in Walmart, as you do, when time has no meaning when I was accosted by an Englishman, he stopped me dead in my tracks with "are you Andrew?" Yes, I said.
Anyway to cut a very long story short, he went on to tell me that he was leaving to go back to the UK the following week and that he was a little worried.
Why, I asked. Because he said, I am not sure whether my Visa is up to date.
Mmmm, yes, your thinking the same as I did!
I tried asking all the right questions, you know, what type of visa is it, is it an 'L' visa, how long have you been here, when did you renew it, you know the sort of thing.
Well, sadly, I said I tried but to no avail as he was a man that would not let me get word in edgeways.
The gist of it, as far as I could make out was that he had been here 6 months on a first visit from the UK with one renewal in the interim.
Eventually, I must admit, I was glad to get away as I could be of no help if he wouldn't let me speak.
I have now heard, a man was stopped trying to leave China by immigration officials recently, given the option of 10 days in prison or a 5000RMB fine for not having an up to date visa…Mmmm, I wonder. If he is out there somewhere it would be great if he could fill us all in with all the gory details.
The Chinese woman is different - Is she?
She may be a little feisty sometimes - She may be surprised when you say 'Thank you' - She may be subservient - She may appear uncomplicated - She may be adventurous - She may have been 'hurt' by a man - She may have a limited carnal knowledge
She most likely has been married before
She probably has children - She probably does not smoke - She probably does not drink alcohol - She probably has little life experience
She is probably 'closed' minded, a little secretive sometimes - She is probably petite - She is probably beautiful - She is probably feminine - She is probably naïve
She is generally hardworking
She is most likely happy to be with an older man
She is one of many millions in Asia looking for a husband
She wants a life partner - She wants to help - She wants to help you
She has an opinion
She generally marries for life
Her children are important
Her husband is important
Her family is everything
She enjoys physical contact
She likes to look good - She likes to please - She likes to be in the company of her husband - She likes to be with her family - She likes to manage her home and family
She loves to laugh - She loves fun
She needs reliability - She needs a home - She needs a purpose - She needs marriage
She needs a loving marriage - She needs security - She needs stability - She needs appreciation - She needs a family - She needs to give respect - She needs to gain respect from others - She needs 'self worth' - She needs love - She needs to give love
She needs to feel wanted - She needs to feel worthy
She will not tolerate abuse
She will put others before herself
She has her own very important priority order
Husband, Children, Parents, Siblings, home, self (order may vary)
Is she any different from any other loving wife?
Most certainly, in two respects - She is happy to be with an older man - She is one of many millions in Asia looking for a husband.
Will she do anything to succeed in her quest?…possibly !
She most likely has been married before
She probably has children - She probably does not smoke - She probably does not drink alcohol - She probably has little life experience
She is probably 'closed' minded, a little secretive sometimes - She is probably petite - She is probably beautiful - She is probably feminine - She is probably naïve
She is generally hardworking
She is most likely happy to be with an older man
She is one of many millions in Asia looking for a husband
She wants a life partner - She wants to help - She wants to help you
She has an opinion
She generally marries for life
Her children are important
Her husband is important
Her family is everything
She enjoys physical contact
She likes to look good - She likes to please - She likes to be in the company of her husband - She likes to be with her family - She likes to manage her home and family
She loves to laugh - She loves fun
She needs reliability - She needs a home - She needs a purpose - She needs marriage
She needs a loving marriage - She needs security - She needs stability - She needs appreciation - She needs a family - She needs to give respect - She needs to gain respect from others - She needs 'self worth' - She needs love - She needs to give love
She needs to feel wanted - She needs to feel worthy
She will not tolerate abuse
She will put others before herself
She has her own very important priority order
Husband, Children, Parents, Siblings, home, self (order may vary)
Is she any different from any other loving wife?
Most certainly, in two respects - She is happy to be with an older man - She is one of many millions in Asia looking for a husband.
Will she do anything to succeed in her quest?…possibly !
Back from Hong Kong
We coached to Hong Kong from Nanning, leaving at 9.10pm. Stopped a couple of times along the way for a wee piddle or such like.
I suppose it was about 10 hours to the border then around 40 minutes through immigration, then another 30/40 minutes by bus into Tsim Sha Tsui.
Not bad, time wise BUT from a 'was it comfortable?' viewpoint, not very!
I've overnight coached before in China, on several occasions, thrice in the past year. Now, with hindsight, I was obviously very lucky on all past excursions.
On previous occasions I had always managed to get an overnight coach with just two lines of beds, one down each side, so, the bunks were wide enough and just about long enough to have a little stretch out, with a nice airy space in between.
No such luck this time - Bunks down each side plus an additional line down the middle, in effect, three across. Hardly enough bunk width to lay on your back. So your arms are either left flailing or you need to position them on your chest - just as well I'm not a busty women then! Oh and shorter in bunk length.
OK, I'm older, probably less inclined to be just that little bit more tolerant of difficult situations.
I don't mind admitting when we first entered onto the coach my first reaction was to turn to Nana and say, What the f… are we doing?…lets fly instead.
She, in turn, in her lovely calming 'perfect wife, I'll make it right' way, casually ignored my outburst and replied, "Come on, it'll be fine, its an adventure".
How could I refuse?
Some 12 sleepless hours later, we had arrived.
7am or soon after we found ourselves off the bus…to be continued...
7am or soon after we found ourselves off the bus, on the street, in Nathan Road to be precise, 280 RMB each the lighter (the cost of the ticket, Nanning to Hong Kong) and also very hot.
We left Nanning the day previous, cold and coated.
Now I knew it would be a little warmer or so I thought, and I had checked on the internet for the HK weather. I'm not sure whether it was a case of not trusting or just plain stupidity on my part but I had decided to wear my coat.
Much to my annoyance the forecast was right, expected high of 25 degrees and not far off that figure now, at 7 in the morning or so it felt.
So, sweating, crotchety, unshaven and desperate for a shower we set off on the search for the hotel.
Yes, I have spent time in Hong Kong, Yes, I lived here for around 6 months some 5 years ago in the New Territories but that does not make deciding whether to turn left or right at various junctions any easier, especially when heavily laden, tired and also knowing full well that the hotel would be busy and the chances of them allowing us into our room at this god forsaken hour was highly unlikely!
Anyway, after 20 minutes and a few 'sorry, wrong way, we need to go back' and those ever so Chinese wife - 'your not my everything now' looks…we found it.
Can we go to our room now? - No, sorry, 10.30 am at the earliest.
But you can leave your bags here.
Oh well, only 3 hours to wait.
Hong Kong Park is lovely at this time of the morning I told Nana hurriedly AND its only just around the corner AND there's a McDonalds just inside…OK, she said...lovingly.
So that was that - we were here.
10.30 duly arrived and true to their word, they let us in. Good of them really as the official check in time was 2pm.
Nice room, twin bedded (if you want a double bed expect to pay considerably more), overlooking the harbour, well, you can see some of the harbour through the gap between two buildings, what do you expect for 1000HK$ a night, in the centre of Hong Kong.
I like Hong Kong... to be continued...
I like Hong Kong, not because it was once British or because I have lived there previously.
Simply, I like the fact that everything is close to, I mean, everything is easily reached.
Whatever you want, food, entertainment, views, walks, people, solitude...whatever, all easily reached and with little hassle.
The trains arrive on time and every few minutes, the busses and taxis are in copious quantities going this way or that.
All making getting about, I find, a pleasurable experience.
I like the mix of people in Hong Kong, more westerners and the like. I was also pleased to note this stay that the 'pesterers' (persons that approach you trying to sell you something) along Nathan Road (Star Ferry end) had diminished in numbers and were now also far less aggressive in their nature than in the past probably due to a crackdown by the authorities. It was becoming a serious problem at one time.
After a quick wash and brush up in out hotel room I whisked Nana off to buy Octopus cards (prepaid travel cards) a must for anyone planning a stay in HK, easy to use for travel and various other things including MaciD's.
I find the best mode of travel is via the MTR (mostly underground Mass Transit Railway) and much to Nana's amusement we went underground. I thought it best to familiarise Nana straight away with the MTR in case by chance we become parted for any reason. It is the surest way of getting oneself back to familiar territory quickly. All MTR stations have multi entry points, clearly signed and easily recognised.
We made our way to the Star Ferry (Octopus card accepted) a must for a first visit and a lovely way to acquaint Nana with the layout of the main Hong Kong area.
We needed to be at Hong Kong airport early the morning after our arrival to meet my daughter on her way through to NZ via Scotland, Italy, Hong Kong and Thailand.
Hong Kong airport is a joy, certainly in my top 3 in the world. Easy to depart from and arrive to…no complaints.
We had no real plans for my daughters arrival as I was aware that Jet Lag-Time differences would certainly be taking there toll on both my daughter and her fiancé.
We and they were happy to 'wing it' on arrival.
Disney World or Ocean Park? - we chose Ocean Park, it was very good and certainly better now than the last time I was there.
The Peak - A must do, both on a clear day and most certainly at night. We decided to eat 'up top' and a very nice meal was heartily consumed…Two beers (Chinese Tsing Tao Pilsner - 192HK$...yes, that's what I thought...over £12…a little steep but we were at the top)
Various other jaunts including the 'must do' daytime shopping and night markets soon made the 3 days pass.
It was time to say goodbye to HK and my daughter and we left them at the Airport awaiting their flight to Thailand.
Oh dear...Nana and I needed to make our way back to Nanning.
The thought of the dreaded return coach trip filling my with joy…to be continued.
The thought of the dreaded return coach trip filling my with joy and also safe in the knowledge that we did not need to check out till 2pm (normally 12 midday but owing to the fact that on our first night we needed to be moved at 2.30am into another room because of a faulty water tank filling up and making a noise like Niagara Falls, the management had decided to give us this extra time) - Time now was 9am.
We couldn't put it off any longer, the time had come 2pm. We checked out and home we headed.
This time, on discovering a new train line straight to the border crossing at Lo Wu we
MTR'd from Tsim Sha Tsui East to Lo Wu - 25 minutes…easy peasy lemonsqueezey.
Lo Wu is Shenzhen to all intents and purposes as Shenzhen moves ever closer to Hong Kong and visa versa.
30 minutes through immigration (we were lucky both times, going to and coming from, as this can sometimes take hours and hours and hours)
A short walk, maybe 3/4 minutes and low and behold, we were at one of the Shenzhen bus stations more by luck than judgement offering overnight coaches to Nanning, Guilin and other locations (also worth noting, we managed to find very close by another bus station, near the train station, offering overnight coaches to Beihai…next time…maybe)
We bought our tickets, 230RMB this time owing to the fact that now we are travelling from Shenzhen to Nanning, add to this the MTR fare of 33HK$ it means, its cheaper to do it this way, cheaper than our journey into Hong Kong and certainly a lot cheaper than if we had tried to book in Hong Kong to Nanning.
Like all things Chinese nothing is particularly simple and we later found out that had we enquired at another window in the same bus station we had a choice of different arrival points in Nanning, those that know Nanning will know that there are several bus stations.
This did not affect us in any real way as we live approximately the same distance from both options (actually the other option was more expensive by 30RMB) and we were planning to take a taxi home anticipating being back in Nanning sometime between 5am and 6am…or so we thought…
We were planning to take a taxi home anticipating being back in Nanning sometime between 5am and 6am…or so we thought.
Now don't get me wrong, delays and holdups are part of the course here in China but when the coach is meant to leave at 7pm with two further pick up stops in Shenzhen scheduled for 7.20 and 7.30, I was becoming a little irritable to say the least when some 2 hours later we had not left Shenzhen.
Probably owing partly to volume of traffic and delays in people and chattels getting onto the coach.
Why does it take so long for some people to settle in? Why are they always so vociferous? Why would anyone want to video someone getting on the bus and then video them getting into their bunk as was the case at the initial stop where a western man in a wheelchair was duly deposited onto the coach.
So off we set for what I must say was the worst trip so far…another 3 lines of bunks setup, cold, draughty, stop - starting, swerving and those sometimes essential wee piddle stops - in this case they appeared to be extended each time by what seemed like hours and that wretched television that always positioned right in my closed eyes line of sight, flickering and loud.
The usual mobile phones 'going off' followed by that always louder than is necessary…"Weiiii".
A new sound reverberates about the coaches now we have the latest generation of Mobile Phones with built in cameras, web browsing and PDA facilities 'the dreaded key board tones' bleep, bleep, bleep…not to mention the occasional 'flash' as yet 'another' picture is taken for what purpose, I do not know…does anyone actually ever view these photo's?
Eventually we arrived at the Nanning bus station after the final 45 minutes of the journey was spent travelling along what appeared to be an unmade road with potholes and the like at a speed of no more than 10/15 miles per hour, bumping around…oh, what joy.
Here we were in Nanning around 13 hours after leaving Shenzhen bus station, I agree, in one piece but nonetheless more irritable, weary and prone to say, 'never again' than ever before…
AND I forgot to get the BluTac AND the bookstore in Hong Kong didn't have the books I wanted AND I still had the headache that I had before we set off from Nanning 4 days earlier AND…
I suppose it was about 10 hours to the border then around 40 minutes through immigration, then another 30/40 minutes by bus into Tsim Sha Tsui.
Not bad, time wise BUT from a 'was it comfortable?' viewpoint, not very!
I've overnight coached before in China, on several occasions, thrice in the past year. Now, with hindsight, I was obviously very lucky on all past excursions.
On previous occasions I had always managed to get an overnight coach with just two lines of beds, one down each side, so, the bunks were wide enough and just about long enough to have a little stretch out, with a nice airy space in between.
No such luck this time - Bunks down each side plus an additional line down the middle, in effect, three across. Hardly enough bunk width to lay on your back. So your arms are either left flailing or you need to position them on your chest - just as well I'm not a busty women then! Oh and shorter in bunk length.
OK, I'm older, probably less inclined to be just that little bit more tolerant of difficult situations.
I don't mind admitting when we first entered onto the coach my first reaction was to turn to Nana and say, What the f… are we doing?…lets fly instead.
She, in turn, in her lovely calming 'perfect wife, I'll make it right' way, casually ignored my outburst and replied, "Come on, it'll be fine, its an adventure".
How could I refuse?
Some 12 sleepless hours later, we had arrived.
7am or soon after we found ourselves off the bus…to be continued...
7am or soon after we found ourselves off the bus, on the street, in Nathan Road to be precise, 280 RMB each the lighter (the cost of the ticket, Nanning to Hong Kong) and also very hot.
We left Nanning the day previous, cold and coated.
Now I knew it would be a little warmer or so I thought, and I had checked on the internet for the HK weather. I'm not sure whether it was a case of not trusting or just plain stupidity on my part but I had decided to wear my coat.
Much to my annoyance the forecast was right, expected high of 25 degrees and not far off that figure now, at 7 in the morning or so it felt.
So, sweating, crotchety, unshaven and desperate for a shower we set off on the search for the hotel.
Yes, I have spent time in Hong Kong, Yes, I lived here for around 6 months some 5 years ago in the New Territories but that does not make deciding whether to turn left or right at various junctions any easier, especially when heavily laden, tired and also knowing full well that the hotel would be busy and the chances of them allowing us into our room at this god forsaken hour was highly unlikely!
Anyway, after 20 minutes and a few 'sorry, wrong way, we need to go back' and those ever so Chinese wife - 'your not my everything now' looks…we found it.
Can we go to our room now? - No, sorry, 10.30 am at the earliest.
But you can leave your bags here.
Oh well, only 3 hours to wait.
Hong Kong Park is lovely at this time of the morning I told Nana hurriedly AND its only just around the corner AND there's a McDonalds just inside…OK, she said...lovingly.
So that was that - we were here.
10.30 duly arrived and true to their word, they let us in. Good of them really as the official check in time was 2pm.
Nice room, twin bedded (if you want a double bed expect to pay considerably more), overlooking the harbour, well, you can see some of the harbour through the gap between two buildings, what do you expect for 1000HK$ a night, in the centre of Hong Kong.
I like Hong Kong... to be continued...
I like Hong Kong, not because it was once British or because I have lived there previously.
Simply, I like the fact that everything is close to, I mean, everything is easily reached.
Whatever you want, food, entertainment, views, walks, people, solitude...whatever, all easily reached and with little hassle.
The trains arrive on time and every few minutes, the busses and taxis are in copious quantities going this way or that.
All making getting about, I find, a pleasurable experience.
I like the mix of people in Hong Kong, more westerners and the like. I was also pleased to note this stay that the 'pesterers' (persons that approach you trying to sell you something) along Nathan Road (Star Ferry end) had diminished in numbers and were now also far less aggressive in their nature than in the past probably due to a crackdown by the authorities. It was becoming a serious problem at one time.
After a quick wash and brush up in out hotel room I whisked Nana off to buy Octopus cards (prepaid travel cards) a must for anyone planning a stay in HK, easy to use for travel and various other things including MaciD's.
I find the best mode of travel is via the MTR (mostly underground Mass Transit Railway) and much to Nana's amusement we went underground. I thought it best to familiarise Nana straight away with the MTR in case by chance we become parted for any reason. It is the surest way of getting oneself back to familiar territory quickly. All MTR stations have multi entry points, clearly signed and easily recognised.
We made our way to the Star Ferry (Octopus card accepted) a must for a first visit and a lovely way to acquaint Nana with the layout of the main Hong Kong area.
We needed to be at Hong Kong airport early the morning after our arrival to meet my daughter on her way through to NZ via Scotland, Italy, Hong Kong and Thailand.
Hong Kong airport is a joy, certainly in my top 3 in the world. Easy to depart from and arrive to…no complaints.
We had no real plans for my daughters arrival as I was aware that Jet Lag-Time differences would certainly be taking there toll on both my daughter and her fiancé.
We and they were happy to 'wing it' on arrival.
Disney World or Ocean Park? - we chose Ocean Park, it was very good and certainly better now than the last time I was there.
The Peak - A must do, both on a clear day and most certainly at night. We decided to eat 'up top' and a very nice meal was heartily consumed…Two beers (Chinese Tsing Tao Pilsner - 192HK$...yes, that's what I thought...over £12…a little steep but we were at the top)
Various other jaunts including the 'must do' daytime shopping and night markets soon made the 3 days pass.
It was time to say goodbye to HK and my daughter and we left them at the Airport awaiting their flight to Thailand.
Oh dear...Nana and I needed to make our way back to Nanning.
The thought of the dreaded return coach trip filling my with joy…to be continued.
The thought of the dreaded return coach trip filling my with joy and also safe in the knowledge that we did not need to check out till 2pm (normally 12 midday but owing to the fact that on our first night we needed to be moved at 2.30am into another room because of a faulty water tank filling up and making a noise like Niagara Falls, the management had decided to give us this extra time) - Time now was 9am.
We couldn't put it off any longer, the time had come 2pm. We checked out and home we headed.
This time, on discovering a new train line straight to the border crossing at Lo Wu we
MTR'd from Tsim Sha Tsui East to Lo Wu - 25 minutes…easy peasy lemonsqueezey.
Lo Wu is Shenzhen to all intents and purposes as Shenzhen moves ever closer to Hong Kong and visa versa.
30 minutes through immigration (we were lucky both times, going to and coming from, as this can sometimes take hours and hours and hours)
A short walk, maybe 3/4 minutes and low and behold, we were at one of the Shenzhen bus stations more by luck than judgement offering overnight coaches to Nanning, Guilin and other locations (also worth noting, we managed to find very close by another bus station, near the train station, offering overnight coaches to Beihai…next time…maybe)
We bought our tickets, 230RMB this time owing to the fact that now we are travelling from Shenzhen to Nanning, add to this the MTR fare of 33HK$ it means, its cheaper to do it this way, cheaper than our journey into Hong Kong and certainly a lot cheaper than if we had tried to book in Hong Kong to Nanning.
Like all things Chinese nothing is particularly simple and we later found out that had we enquired at another window in the same bus station we had a choice of different arrival points in Nanning, those that know Nanning will know that there are several bus stations.
This did not affect us in any real way as we live approximately the same distance from both options (actually the other option was more expensive by 30RMB) and we were planning to take a taxi home anticipating being back in Nanning sometime between 5am and 6am…or so we thought…
We were planning to take a taxi home anticipating being back in Nanning sometime between 5am and 6am…or so we thought.
Now don't get me wrong, delays and holdups are part of the course here in China but when the coach is meant to leave at 7pm with two further pick up stops in Shenzhen scheduled for 7.20 and 7.30, I was becoming a little irritable to say the least when some 2 hours later we had not left Shenzhen.
Probably owing partly to volume of traffic and delays in people and chattels getting onto the coach.
Why does it take so long for some people to settle in? Why are they always so vociferous? Why would anyone want to video someone getting on the bus and then video them getting into their bunk as was the case at the initial stop where a western man in a wheelchair was duly deposited onto the coach.
So off we set for what I must say was the worst trip so far…another 3 lines of bunks setup, cold, draughty, stop - starting, swerving and those sometimes essential wee piddle stops - in this case they appeared to be extended each time by what seemed like hours and that wretched television that always positioned right in my closed eyes line of sight, flickering and loud.
The usual mobile phones 'going off' followed by that always louder than is necessary…"Weiiii".
A new sound reverberates about the coaches now we have the latest generation of Mobile Phones with built in cameras, web browsing and PDA facilities 'the dreaded key board tones' bleep, bleep, bleep…not to mention the occasional 'flash' as yet 'another' picture is taken for what purpose, I do not know…does anyone actually ever view these photo's?
Eventually we arrived at the Nanning bus station after the final 45 minutes of the journey was spent travelling along what appeared to be an unmade road with potholes and the like at a speed of no more than 10/15 miles per hour, bumping around…oh, what joy.
Here we were in Nanning around 13 hours after leaving Shenzhen bus station, I agree, in one piece but nonetheless more irritable, weary and prone to say, 'never again' than ever before…
AND I forgot to get the BluTac AND the bookstore in Hong Kong didn't have the books I wanted AND I still had the headache that I had before we set off from Nanning 4 days earlier AND…
Buying an apartment in Nanning China - My experiences
Buying an apartment in Nanning China - My experiences in 2007
Easy, depending on your viewpoint and your patience and your pain thresh hold and you anger management technique...
Nana and I spent about 2 weeks looking all around Nanning for something that we considered (and met our considerable needs) suitable.
We viewed many apartments in all shapes and sizes in many location at differing prices.
Some through an agent, others that we saw being built and we searched for the sales office (not always the most easy office to find)
Interestingly, around half of the ones being built were for "workers", which "workers" I do not know but on enquiring this was the usual answer, they are "workers" apartments.
We did find one in particular that we liked and was in the process of being built by the water company, for water company employees and some of these were for sale but on enquiring further we were disappointed to find out that they were all sold...not unusual here.
Many were half way through construction and were all sold !
This annoying situation happens a lot, you find your ideal location block only to find that they are all sold.
The Chinese are great speculators and a lot are sold for this purpose, speculation.
Buy now, do nothing, sell in about a year for profit.
Whether this is only Nanning or is happening all over China I do not know for sure, I suspect the latter is the case.
In fact we did look at a few apartments in what I would consider to be older blocks, obviously bought at time of construction, probably around 2/3 years ago and now back on the market in their 'raw' unfinished state, a good example of speculative purchasing.
The Chinese do not like second hand property and the fact that it has never been 'fitted out' makes it 'as new, although now a few years old.
It is probably worth pointing out again, I mentioned this in one of my earlier posts, I do not particularly like the thought of living in one of the new development areas, around the new Walmart Super Center Store as I see these as concrete jungles with no heart, but each to there own.
I prefer to be in the 'Chinese quarter' where the hussle and bussle of daily life provide a much more interesting environment.
Eventually, after much looking, disappointment and frustration we managed to find one...the one, it met all our requirements, well, almost, as near as we could hope for.
Its in a popular area, prices rising, about 5/10 minutes on a bus from the city center or around 30/40 minutes on foot depending on the heat. Lots going on, all around, especially in the evenings, a Bank of China about 5 minutes in either direction (two) for a usable (in English) ATM.
PERFICK...now for the fun bit and the bit I found more than a little difficult for me (me, being a control freak)...the purchasing of said apartment...
Now I am not saying the apartments available in the new heartless areas of Nanning are not good, they are a good size and mostly well designed, the western influence is apparent.
I am pretty certain that the buying process for these new apartments would be easier as you would be dealing with a business (property developer) and it would be in there best interests to make it all as painless as possible. Whether or not there is much room for negotiation will depend on demand and if what I have seen is the norm then the chances are against you.
One thing worth noting, whilst we were looking we came across a new block being built. When we eventually found the sales office and enquired we were told that we would need to put a 10% deposit down immediately and the balance would be due within 7 days.
So this meant we would need to pay totally for an apartment that I found out after much questioning would not be completed for at least 12 months and we would not be able to move in until then.
There appears to be no rules, rhyme or reason here, each situation is different.
Maybe it was because they saw a westerner and thought...Oh, easy pickings here...I just walked away.
The apartment we have chosen was owned by a Chinese lady that now had an American boyfriend and was hoping to go the the USA.
We found it through an agent and viewed it as soon as we were told it was available. The owner was present during our viewing.
After viewing we went back to the agents office, we already knew the asking price as the agent had provided these details to us before viewing...or so we thought.
We told the agent we wanted to buy it and after a quick phone call to the owner she appeared at the office within a few minutes. We were all taken into a private room at the rear of the main agent office and duly sat down.
The owner and the agent then began what appeared to be a heated discussion. I could feel one of my "out of my control moments" coming on so turned to Nana for a translated explanation.
Poor Nana, she has me, her irate husband in one ear asking for translation and explanation whilst trying to engage in the heated discussion...she's great...not an easy task.
Apparently, the owner had decided that the price was to low because we had shown interest, she maintained the agent was wrong to tell us the price. The agent was saying she had told them the price to sell at...which one do you believe?
I know the truth... its that westerner syndrome again. She was obviously trying to hike the price up...by another 20,000RMB.
Now I have a tactic when met with these more than a little uncommon situations when abroad and shopping.
It is simply this...I have the money in my pocket and there will always be other sellers out there. So I just walk away. Sometimes if I really want the item and it is unlikely to be available else where I might haggle. in my experience every time I walk away I always manage to find the item again, maybe a few days later and normally a lot cheaper.
But...a place to live, as perfect as we could wish for, now that is something a little different.
I had to play this one carefully, all of 10 seconds pass by so what do I do, I get up and start to walk out of the office. The agent sensing my frustration immediately asked me to sit back down, I know my place, so did as I was told.
The entertainment started almost as soon as my bum hit the seat, even louder heated exchanges between the agent, the seller and this time Nana joining in...
I just sat there, thinking, maybe its not that bad after all...in the UK I mean...
Anyway, after about 10 minutes with me twiddling my thumbs and listening to 3 Chinese in full flow I decided it was time for action...
Once again, I got up to leave...the silence became very loud.
I suppose it took me about 10 seconds to get to the door..the seller uttered a few words as I opened the door. Nana then called me back just as I was going through the door...
She has agreed the original price, Nana said excitedly - thank .... for that I thought!
On further interrogation of Nana afterwards she told me I had made two, yes 2 fundamental errors. Should have guessed it would be my fault. (The Chinese have an annoying habit of blaming everybody else first, thereby avoiding taking responsibility of there own actions and also saving "face" should anything go wrong)
OK, back to my 2 errors. Firstly, I was a westerner, not a good thing to be when negotiating a price in China.
Secondly, I had shown an interest in the apartment too quickly and with far too much enthusiasm....
Guilty as charged. In my own defense I like things to happen quickly, I want an apartment now, not in 12 months time.
It is not unusual for this first stage of purchase to go on for weeks and weeks with tentative enquiries being made occasionally.
The culture is different in this respect, being a westerner we tend to make decisions, carry out the actions and finalise matters at lightning speed compared to the Chinese. This is not criticism, just observation, there way is probably best as no rash decisions are made so nothing comes back to haunt you later on...well, I hope not.
I am happy, the owner has agreed our price, this is great news. Now we have our own apartment...Not quite.
When purchasing property in China it is in my experience a 5 stage process:
- Find a property
- Agree a price
- You pay a deposit on acceptance of offer (around 10,000RMB) This is non refundable should you decide for any reason not to buy. The vendor also has this obligation. These first 3 stages could happen on the same day.
- Next you arrange with the vendor a bank transfer of around 75% of asking price into an account of the vendors choosing...a little scary as you will need to wait hopefully only around 30 minutes for the vendor to confirm they have received it. Normally the agent, if there was one will be present to help the process along. This stage usually happens a week or two after payment of the initial deposit if the existing owner has a bank loan (mortgage) outstanding on the property. At this stage it is usual to be able to move into your property.
- Some 4/5 weeks later you should be able to pay the remaining balance. It is at this stage you will receive the property registration documents. This final time frame is dependent on government departments speed.
It is now at this final stage that you will also need to pay the various taxes and other disbursements. These normally average out at around 8/10% of selling price. When you enter into the early price negotiation you can try to split these costs or even insist the vendor pay them...good luck!
Interesting to note that some do not complete this final stage 5, so they end up living in a property with no registration documents...
Whilst Nana and I were looking a couple of these were offered to us, apartments with no registration documents.
It would probably not be too difficult to sort out the issues relating to property with no registration papers, probably only a payment made to the original owner would be all that is required but I certainly did not want to enter into what appeared to me to be a huge can of worms...so we decided not to pursue these particular apartments...
One thing to note. Here property is sold by the square metre. most agents will display the number of square metres. The price per square metre will depend on a particular block in a particular location, the quality and the demand. Prices vary enormously from block to block, just like any where else in the world.
Tips...Location, Location, Location.
Property prices are on the up in Nanning as well as other popular locations all around China.
All the larger cities are reporting rising prices.
Beihai, a very popular sea resort close to Nanning is reporting a higher than average increase.
In Nanning property prices are rising steadily, around 12% has been reported but I suspect this is an average as I know of one location where prices have nearly doubled in 12 months.
I am fortunate to have three Chinese real estate agents friends here in Nanning that help us.
I am constantly being asked by westerners, how much does property cost here in Nanning Guangxi China, some asking me directly, how much did I pay for mine.
I tend not to answer these direct questions as I believe some things should remain confidential, probably the Britishness in me showing. Also I think that now I am a property owner that might consider selling if the right offer comes along then the price I paid would be best not spoken about.
Now, that's the property developer in me showing.
Buy low, add cost effective value then sell, a winning formulae wherever you are situated in world.
All things considered, I have been fortunate. I built my own house in the UK some 20 years ago, renovated 3 others so my building and refitting experience is by far, more than suitable enough to get by on.
Although the challenges here in Nanning have been similar, the obvious difference is the ignorance on my part of the Chinese language and lack of local knowledge for best tradesmen and suppliers, but I'm learning...
A steep learning curve...yet again.
The question was...how much is property here in Nanning?
In the past month I have viewed property from around 1000RMB per sq metre to over 5000RMB per sq metre.
I have viewed 3 bed roomed apartments of 100 sq metres to 1500+ sq metres.
I have viewed 4 bed roomed apartments of 200 sq metres to over 2000 sq metres
From this you can easily see that price is relative.
Size of rooms, extra living rooms, kitchen and bathroom space all need to be viewed to fully understand how a cost is arrived at.
Just like any where else, what looks good on paper may in reality be totally unsuitable for your needs.
As a rough guide at this months prices... ( I know of one particular block in a particularly sort after area where prices have gone from 3400 RMB to 5000+RMB per sq metre in the last 3/4 months, agent friends inform me that this trend is now happening in other areas and is likely to continue, although it is worth pointing out that with the anticipated slow down of the American economy in the coming months China may also be affected as well as most others countries, this may or may not have some influence on property prices here)... 3000/3500RMB per sq metre and allowing for at least 100 sq metres for a small 2/3 bed roomed apartment should give you a good guide price.
This price reflects an already lived in apartment. If buying new, then prices will depend greatly on the developer and demand and may be higher or lower.
If new, you will need to allow for fitting out, flooring, plastering, tiling, plumbing, electrics, kitchen, bathroom and sometimes windows and doors etc, etc. It will be a shell.
Once again it will be up to the individual, what quality standard is required. The cost here could be for a 3 bed roomed apartment of average size (150 sq metre) as little as 20/30,000RMB, it could also be as high as you like, each to there own, subjective is the word I would use.
My apartment is reasonably small and I am only renovating but so far I have spent in excess of 50,000 and still counting.
OK, the final price will include furnishings and appliances but you will still need to keep a tight reign. Quality costs, where ever you are...
Tips...The three Golden rules applies here also...location, location, location.
Look for popular areas, not just with westerners, be brave, venture out, there are bargains to be had.
LATEST UPDATE
This week Nana and I completed the apartment registration process. We are now fully entrenched in our new home with…wait for it, our official government, fully paid up, registration document with only my wife's name showing in it.
To say it had been an easy process, this registration document bit, would be an understatement.
Once again our relationship has been stretched to breaking point, we are a very malleable couple. Not because of anything we do, it’s the 'others'
I must stress this is my recent experience and I would not be in the least surprised to hear that for others it has been different. Here goes…
To buy and register property in your name or in joint names including yours you need to have been working or studying in Nanning for at least a year. (New rules as of July 2007) This is how they were described to us by the officials at the office.
Now this statement might on the face of it appear a little strange…it is.
Firstly, when I say to buy and register, I really mean to register because it is possible to buy here and then register the property in your wife's name. It is only at registration, the bit where you pay the government taxes and receive your registration papers that require you to have been working or studying Nanning for one year if you want your name to appear on the document.
This is my experience, let me explain…
The day before we were due to go to the government office the real estate agent phoned saying, there might be a little problem, the government office are now saying you need to be resident in Nanning for one year before you can buy a property here.
This was no real surprise. So I decided that we would go to the registration office and find out for ourselves.
This we did. Went to the desk only to be informed we needed a police document confirming that I had first arrived in Nanning over one year ago and also a Chinese translation of my British passport.
A complicated bit followed...My passport expired in June 2007, so in keeping with International rules I needed to renew it before my final trip to Nanning.(6 months before expiry) This meant that all me previous visitor stamps were in my old passport and my new passport only showed my most recent visit.
Are you following me so far?...
So this complicated bit now meant I also needed to provide the police with all my Hotel receipts from the visit one year previous (luckily also I had kept these) and to show my old passport (luckily I had kept it and brought it with me). They then provided me with a handwritten statement declaring I had indeed been present in Nanning one year previous and officially stamped it.
A quick visit to the official translator and after much to-ing and fro-ing my passport was duly translated.
Everything OK now?…not on your Nelly.
On returning to the property registration office we were informed that as of July 2007 the rules had changed.
You now need to have worked or studied in Nanning for one year to be able to have a property in your name or with your name appearing as a joint ownership. Also, you can only purchase one property.
I do believe the Chinese authorities have it right and the sensible, well balanced side of me agrees totally with this new policy.
It’s the insecure side of me that finds it difficult to swallow...
Nana and I have now completed the first four necessary stages and are now the proud new occupiers of our apartment, the registration papers, stage 5, will follow shortly...I hope.
We are extremely happy about this and are now looking forward over the next few weeks working away at trying to getting it around to our satisfaction.
We have already had one wall removed making the kitchen area bigger as it is now integral with the dining/living room. (Chinese kitchens tend to be very small)
A new kitchen is being fitted as I write this.
It is far from easy, arranging tradesmen, buying furniture, in fact doing all the things associated with setting up a new home, especially as this is China and I am a westerner...quality still does not appear to highly on there list of essential requirements when it comes to making and fitting things...
Couple this with the fact that I have little Chinese speaking and understanding skills and it will be easy to see why the negotiations and technical discussions have caused an issue or two for both me and my wife. Our relationship has been stretched to breaking point on more than one occasion...but all through Nana has been brilliant, always patient with me and always trying to act in our best interests.
It is very difficult for her as she knows how important it is for me to understand what is happening and she also has to try and balance the cost, relative to quality and translate technical details back and forth between me, her husband and the various tradesmen that we all know can be more than a little difficult sometimes regardless of where you are in the world.
So the whole process, apartment buying, renovation, fitting kitchens, removing walls, decorating, new plumbing, new electrics, furnishing and above all trying to create a home with western influences to western standards have most certainly brought our honeymoon period to an end...but our relationship is now very strong and our understanding of each other has grown immensely.
Nothing has been smooth, everything has to be double checked, items returned because of damage or not functioning, work carried out needing to be rectified, normally by me, to my standard...all this has taken its toll.
I think if asked, I would recommend anyone else taking the same path as us then it would probably be best to employ a very good translator with a good understanding of both Chinese and western culture, the latter requirement is most important as it is the understanding that brings harmony.
Would I do it all again? - Yes, we are now searching for another apartment to buy, we have a lot of good tradesmen in our phone book now that we have used...I love it here...
Today after many hours at the property registration office I have learnt for certain that a foreigner can only register a property here in Nanning in there own name or as a joint name providing they are working or studying in Nanning for at least one year.
Also only one property purchase is permitted.
Apparently these strict new rules came into force as of July this year (July 2007)
Buying furniture and appliances in Nanning Guangxi China
If you know where to look the choice, range and availability is astonishing.
Huge, what I would class as retail/industrial parks devoted to particular trades. For instance, you want a new bathroom or kitchen? then you have a choice of at least two large areas with 100's of individual units specializing in these products, everything from a sink plunger to a super duper whirlpool bath, fittings, tiles, flooring and of course the sink all in one convenient area.
Add to this the many shops and other premises scattered around Nanning in the various streets and shopping areas and you will soon be saying....there is far too much choice and this does become a hindrance as after a day of looking it is difficult to remember which one offered the best price at the right quality standard in the right colour and the the right size and offered free delivery on the day you require it...all good fun or a nightmare depending on your view point.
Dont forget that once you finally decide on a supplier the next question might be - will it work when I receive it?
We are on our third Fridge/Freezer, having spent what seemed like days looking in the various department stores and independent shops at once again a huge range available in many different brands, some Chinese, some foreign. LG, Samsung. Panasonic, Siemens plus others that I just cannot remember at this minute and the myriad of Chinese brands we finally found the right size in the right colour at the right price.
It was delivered same day, great, at last, nice cold beer, orange juice and ice cream...not likely.
On unpacking we spotted a large dent in the side, so back it went for exchange.
In fairness, another was with us within 3 hours...great, no dents and it worked, fantastic.
Well, it worked for 4 days then suddenly stopped.
Nana was straight on the phone, within 2 hours a repair man was out, whether this is normal or due to my wife's persistence I do not know as I still haven't a clue what is being said.
Anyway, the repair man informed Nana that the fridge was caput, so he went. Nana was back on the phone.
Now strange requirements are made of customers here in Nanning and probably the rest of China. When you buy a new appliance you should keep all packaging for at least a month, should things go wrong with it.
I should have guessed when told this that things might just be a little unreliable, to cut a long story short, we did not keep the packaging. After all we are fitting out the whole house, we would need another house to store all the bloody boxes in.
Eventually after many phone calls someone arrived to pick up the now not working and un-repacked fridge freezer.
Whilst these discussions were going on Nana was also talking with someone else in another department asking when we could expect the third brand new working and undented fridge freezer to arrive...
Now I know these issues occur in other countries I have had many a happy hour sitting on the end of a telephone in the UK listening to music, normally some well known classical piece and finally getting some sloppy couldn't care less person trying to sort out a problem that they have no interest in whatsoever, so this is not just China.
I am the customer, I have paid the money and I want what I have been promised.
Here a different set of rules apply, it is as if you the customer are lucky to have found a supplier that will sell something to you, they are doing you the favour. This is the cultural difference I suspect rearing it ugly head. I do know that China is changing and is trying very hard to improve on all customer service attitudes.
Nana came off the phone looking worried, she knew that what she was about to tell me would set my blood boiling...they are saying, she said, we can have the display model as this is the only one they have left and wait for it...we can have it at the same price as we no longer have the original packing...I think not.
Calmly, unusual for me in these situations I said, No thank you, I will have my money back instead.
Much to my surprise, after more frantic phone calls, they agreed. So off we went to get our money back and start the long now arduous search for another Fridge Freezer.
The good news, we have found one, an LG, Korean I think, fingers crossed. It has been working continuously now for 4 hours. I'm not counting my chickens just yet. The packaging is stored under our bed. You never know when you might need it...
A final note...we are still getting phone calls asking us to pay for the packaging that we threw away for the original fridge. Our argument is, we will happily pay for the packaging if they will pay for all the food we needed to throw away because there fridge did not work. All is now calm and the phone no longer rings...
I am a happy bunny once again...maybe !
Huge, what I would class as retail/industrial parks devoted to particular trades. For instance, you want a new bathroom or kitchen? then you have a choice of at least two large areas with 100's of individual units specializing in these products, everything from a sink plunger to a super duper whirlpool bath, fittings, tiles, flooring and of course the sink all in one convenient area.
Add to this the many shops and other premises scattered around Nanning in the various streets and shopping areas and you will soon be saying....there is far too much choice and this does become a hindrance as after a day of looking it is difficult to remember which one offered the best price at the right quality standard in the right colour and the the right size and offered free delivery on the day you require it...all good fun or a nightmare depending on your view point.
Dont forget that once you finally decide on a supplier the next question might be - will it work when I receive it?
We are on our third Fridge/Freezer, having spent what seemed like days looking in the various department stores and independent shops at once again a huge range available in many different brands, some Chinese, some foreign. LG, Samsung. Panasonic, Siemens plus others that I just cannot remember at this minute and the myriad of Chinese brands we finally found the right size in the right colour at the right price.
It was delivered same day, great, at last, nice cold beer, orange juice and ice cream...not likely.
On unpacking we spotted a large dent in the side, so back it went for exchange.
In fairness, another was with us within 3 hours...great, no dents and it worked, fantastic.
Well, it worked for 4 days then suddenly stopped.
Nana was straight on the phone, within 2 hours a repair man was out, whether this is normal or due to my wife's persistence I do not know as I still haven't a clue what is being said.
Anyway, the repair man informed Nana that the fridge was caput, so he went. Nana was back on the phone.
Now strange requirements are made of customers here in Nanning and probably the rest of China. When you buy a new appliance you should keep all packaging for at least a month, should things go wrong with it.
I should have guessed when told this that things might just be a little unreliable, to cut a long story short, we did not keep the packaging. After all we are fitting out the whole house, we would need another house to store all the bloody boxes in.
Eventually after many phone calls someone arrived to pick up the now not working and un-repacked fridge freezer.
Whilst these discussions were going on Nana was also talking with someone else in another department asking when we could expect the third brand new working and undented fridge freezer to arrive...
Now I know these issues occur in other countries I have had many a happy hour sitting on the end of a telephone in the UK listening to music, normally some well known classical piece and finally getting some sloppy couldn't care less person trying to sort out a problem that they have no interest in whatsoever, so this is not just China.
I am the customer, I have paid the money and I want what I have been promised.
Here a different set of rules apply, it is as if you the customer are lucky to have found a supplier that will sell something to you, they are doing you the favour. This is the cultural difference I suspect rearing it ugly head. I do know that China is changing and is trying very hard to improve on all customer service attitudes.
Nana came off the phone looking worried, she knew that what she was about to tell me would set my blood boiling...they are saying, she said, we can have the display model as this is the only one they have left and wait for it...we can have it at the same price as we no longer have the original packing...I think not.
Calmly, unusual for me in these situations I said, No thank you, I will have my money back instead.
Much to my surprise, after more frantic phone calls, they agreed. So off we went to get our money back and start the long now arduous search for another Fridge Freezer.
The good news, we have found one, an LG, Korean I think, fingers crossed. It has been working continuously now for 4 hours. I'm not counting my chickens just yet. The packaging is stored under our bed. You never know when you might need it...
A final note...we are still getting phone calls asking us to pay for the packaging that we threw away for the original fridge. Our argument is, we will happily pay for the packaging if they will pay for all the food we needed to throw away because there fridge did not work. All is now calm and the phone no longer rings...
I am a happy bunny once again...maybe !
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